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Pirate Notebook Special
Friday, January 10, 2003

By Denny O'Brien
Staff Writer and Columnist

Passion is a constant for Bill Herrion.
(Associated Press File Photo)

East Carolina basketball coach Bill Herrion doesn't have much free time these days.

When the always-passionate, always-intense coach isn't taming Conference USA heavyweights, he's hard at work at practice or dissecting film from his cozy office. And when the fourth-year ECU coach isn't tinkering with the nuts and bolts of his upstart program, he's searching the globe for the next Pirates superstar — or rallying the constituency at local Pirate Club events.

Before the season kicked into gear, Bonesville.net's Denny O'Brien was able to slow the coach down just enough to have a lengthy chat about hoops, recruiting, Conference USA, and the bright future of Pirate basketball. Here's just a portion of what the two talked about in this exclusive interview.

A: I think it's 50-50 right now. We're just going by what the doctors and professional people tell us. It's a serious knee injury. It's going to take a tremendous amount of rehabilitation on Jason's part — a lot of work, a lot of commitment, a lot of time. I think right now it's probably too early to tell the long-term prognosis.

It's a blow because where I think we're at with our program right now as we put it together and we build it and we move forward, probably the biggest thing that we face, particularly with our frontcourt — our big guys — is depth. I think with Moussa, Gabriel Mikulas, and Erroyl Bing, we've got three solid frontcourt players that have gotten great experience and a lot of playing time and are going to be good players in this conference, but we need depth. Jason Herring would have given us a fourth guy up in that frontcourt. So, from a depth standpoint, it's a real blow.

Q: The past few recruiting classes, you've been able to lure guys from overseas. How important is it that you identify kids from overseas that maybe other programs overlook..?

A: It's not really a gameplan or a commitment that we have to recruit foreign players. That's not kind of where we are going with this. I think what happened was Gabriel Mikulas was our first foreign kid from Argentina. Steve Clifford, who was my assistant my first year and is now with the New York Knicks, was responsible for recruiting Gabe.

When we got Gabe, he was the Rookie of the Year in the CAA his freshman year, averaged about 15 points per game. Then he got hit by that NCAA suspension last year with the foreign players where he missed the first 13 games of the year. Gabe's a good solid frontcourt player.

Then, Greg Herenda, one of my assistants now, went over because of a connection that we have and saw Moussa Badiane. I don't think any of us really knew the impact that he was going to have on our basketball team and our program, particularly defensively. He's just a natural shot-blocker. He led Conference USA in blocked shots (last year). After one year, he is only about 12 blocked shots away from breaking the all-time school record.

I think once he gets stronger physically, which was a main emphasis this summer with the kids that we had on campus for summer school. That's what you use summer school for — academics, to catch up academically — but we've also got to get these guys stronger physically, and Moussa's had a great summer.

Now, Luke Mackay was over here in the states at Lon Morris Junior College down in Texas for two years. So, he's been in the States. And here's the thing... When we go out and recruit in the summer and we go to these all-star camps and these AAU national tournaments, the hardest position to recruit for us where we're at right now (is post players) because everybody wants good big guys. And if you can get a legitimate center and you can get good frontcourt players, you can get pretty good, pretty quick. And I look at it like this, if you took Gabriel Mikulas and put him in one of those Nike camps, or one of those Adidas camps, or in one of those national AAU tournaments, or if you took Moussa and threw him in there, I don't know if we get those kids. We've had to get a little bit creative with the recruiting. There are guys that a lot of people don't know about. I think you've got to give our staff credit because they've gone out, they've worked hard and found these kids.

But what I also think that you get with the foreign kids is these kids aren't poisoned and they're not spoiled so to say by our system here. I think they really appreciate the opportunity to come to the United States. They really value and appreciate the opportunity to get an education here. They're great kids and they're great students.

But it's not like we sat back and said, "OK, we've got to recruit foreign kids." It's kind of just happened.

Q: Last year, you struggled early with the absence of Moussa and Gabe. When you got those guys on the floor, you started playing your best basketball toward the end of the season. How encouraging was that?

A: It was encouraging. I'll be honest with you, I think you've got to look at it a couple of different ways. I'm not sure that 12 wins is a great season, especially by my standards. Before I came down here when I was up at Drexel University in Philadelphia, we had a great run. We won a lot of basketball games in my eight years there. I think what happened this past year is I think there was so much apprehension and so much unknown with our fans, with our alumni, somewhat with our coaching staff going into (Conference USA). I don't think anybody knew what to expect going into Conference USA. I think I even used the term we've got to figure out how wide is the "gap"?

I think a lot of fans out there a year ago before we even played a game in Conference USA took a step back and said "You know what? I'm not going to commit to this thing... I want to sit back and see how this goes the first year." Our fans, I think, have evaluated our season based on how we did in Conference USA. A lot of people didn't think we would win a game in that league. Well, we won five games.

We're trying to win every game. I look at it as, you know what, we won five games, but we were in position to win probably two or three more. We could have won seven or eight games in Conference USA. The next step that we have to take here with this basketball program — and I'm going into my fourth year — we've got to get it done in the non-conference (games).

I get a little bit confused at times when I go out and do the Pirate Club circuit and go out to the alumni, people thought we had a great year last year. Sometimes I sit back and say, "You know what? We only won 12 games." But I think it's because of going into Conference USA, I think a lot of people were really sitting back and saying "Ok, this could be really ugly this year." I'm sure you probably felt the same way. At times, I felt that. But you know what, I think what we did is we really laid the foundation and we really laid the groundwork of convincing our kids that this is where our program starts. If our kids don't play hard and compete at a really really high level energy-wise and effort-wise, we're never going to have a chance. The constant feedback that I get from a lot of our fans around town, on the Pirate Club circuit is "Coach, your kids really play hard."

I think we've also turned this arena, when it's the right environment and when there's the right amount of people in there in to one heck of a home court environment and advantage. The first game we played last year in Conference USA was Cincinnati at home. They came in here like 12th or 13th in the country. Cincinnati has been a measuring stick program in Conference USA basketball — in the nation. They were a No. 1 seed last year. With two-and-a-half minutes left in that game, the place is packed, it's loud, it's a great environment, there's a lot of energy from our fans... and we're down five. Even though we lost that game that night, I think East Carolina basketball won. What we convinced ourselves of was that if we play hard, if we compete hard, if we give effort, you know what — we can play with people in this league. Then we finally broke through at home when we beat Louisville for our first win.

Q: Regarding non-conference scheduling, John Thompson's theory at Georgetown was to schedule light non-conference opponents to build confidence going into Big East play. Other programs like to load the schedule. What's your view on non-conference scheduling?

A: Right now, I don't really have a view. I think the bottom line right now is we've got to win. Teams that we think we should be able to beat, right now, I don't know how much better we are than those teams. We're improving, we're getting better, and we're building this thing. But I think right now, the philosophy is in the non-conference schedule, we've just got to win. We've got to take every game one game at a time and we've got to try to win that game.

Q: Last year you were really vocal about getting into the Conference USA tournament. When you look at this year, have you pinpointed a goal?

A: I've never, ever gone into a season with any team that I've coached and in our first team meeting when school starts say in August or September and said, "OK guys, we want to be 22-8." I've always really believed that if you do the things that you're supposed to do and your kids play hard, and the compete hard and improve and get better, that the wins will take care of themselves.

I think a big goal of ours this past year was we had to try to figure out if we could win a game in Conference USA. We've proven that at home. All five of our conference wins (last year) were in this arena. Now the challenge that we have is, can we go on the road? What really good teams do in college sports is they take care of business at home, but they also go on the road and they steal a few. We've got to figure out how to do that.

I don't think our goal this year will be, OK, we won five games last year, well let's go win six — or seven. We want to win them all and we want to get our kids to believe that every night they step on the court, we're good enough to win. Our ultimate goal with East Carolina basketball — and it's our goal every year, and it's going to be our goal this year — is we want to get to postseason play. The NIT or the NCAA, that's our ultimate goal. And we want to get there quick.

Q: Do you believe East Carolina can become a program that consistently contends for the NCAA Tournament? Consistently wins 20 games?

A: You know, I really believe that it can, and I think that's why I took this job three years ago. I didn't have to make a move — I was very comfortable where I was at. I came down here and I looked at the campus and our facilities. Everybody always says to recruit you need good facilities. We've got a great on-campus arena. We've got a great student recreation center. This new Strength and Conditioning building is state-of-the-art and probably as good as anybody's in the country. So, I think when we bring a young man on campus here, from a selling standpoint, our facilities — we don't really take a back seat to anybody.

Now, the next step is, what we have to do particularly in North Carolina because the ACC is so, so strong — the reputation, the history, the back ground — my philosophy is I think that there's enough kids to go around that somebody will want to come to East Carolina. If you look back to the foreign situation, obviously what we've had to do is we haven't been able to beat out some of these ACC people for in-state kids, so we've had to get a little bit creative with how we recruit. I don't really think that we're going to break that ice and break that barrier here until we start winning more basketball games. The greatest promoter and selling point that you have with any sport or any team is to win games. The more you win, the more publicity you get, the more people take notice, the more people respect you.

Winning 20 basketball games in a season — that's not a real goal. I think that's more of a benchmark for some programs. But again, I go back to if we're doing the things we're supposed to do, our kids are playing and competing really hard, and we're bringing good players in — I really like where we're going.

Q: As you hit the recruiting trail now, you're no longer battling programs like Greensboro for players. When you look at the players you brought in this year, you beat out programs like Oregon State, Mississippi State, and Rutgers. How encouraging is that?

A: We better. I tell my assistants that all the time. Now, are we going to go head-to-head to Duke and beat them out? No, we're not, and our fans better understand that and not take it the wrong way. Are we going to beat a North Carolina? We just lost out to Wake Forest on a pretty big local recruit. So, for right now, for whatever reason, we have not cleared that hurdle yet.

A lot of people still don't know East Carolina. They know our football program because they've been successful for a number of years; they've done it over the course of time; they've given our University, our whole athletic department tremendous exposure because they've been on TV so much. All throughout the country recruiting and at these high school tournaments, I say "East Carolina," and unfortunately, they don't say, "Ah, you're the basketball coach and you've got a great basketball team." The first thing out of their mouth is, "Gees, you've got a really good football team." And that's OK. I think we all help each other and that goes hand-and-hand.

But to get the players that we need right now to make us better and go the right direction, we've got to beat those guys out.

A: Well, number one, I think he was obviously much better than any of us anticipated. Remember, Greg Herenda went over to France — we have a connection over in France, we know a guy over there who is involved with basketball — and he saw about 25-30 kids play.

And that's exactly what he is right now. You can't teach kids to block shots. I think one of the biggest weapons you can have in basketball on the defensive side of the floor is if you can have a legitimate shot blocker protecting the basket. He is a legitimate shot blocker. I think he has got a chance... I think he can be as good as he wants to be. I told him the sky's the limit as far as his growth, his potential, and his development as a basketball player. Now, I think a couple of things have to happen. He's got to get stronger. He came in here at about 193 pounds last year at this time. He bench-pressed 190 pounds when he came here last year. In summer school, he benched 250.

As he gets more experienced offensively, then I think his offense is going to catch up. He's got a chance to play after college. There's no question about it. That all depends on him and he knows that. He's already been told that.

Q: One thing that I've noticed about Moussa as a shot-blocker is that rarely do you see him try to swat it into the seats. A lot of times he tips the ball and catches it, or tips it to where another teammate can recover it.

A: I'd love to sit here and tell you that's how we coach him. That's got nothing to do with us coaching him. You can't teach a kid how to block shots. But if you go way, way back in NBA basketball and you look at the greatest shot-blockers that have played the game, probably the greatest shot-blocker, I think, was Bill Russell, who played for the Boston Celtics, and that's the one thing they used to say about Russell. Every time he blocked a shot, he kept it in play.

If you go back and watch our tapes, almost every time this kid blocked a shot and kept it in play, you got transition the other way. It's a tremendous weapon. Now, we know we've got a legitimate guy in the paint that can block some shots, so I think it's going to allow us to... defensively... get a little more aggressive on the perimeter, to gamble a little bit more because you know you're protected behind you.

Q: What are your thoughts about Conference USA moving from two divisions to one?

A: I think for East Carolina, it's good-bad. I think a lot of our fans were really waiting for Cincinnati to come into this arena; to see a nationally-ranked program; to see a Bob Huggins; to see a basketball team that, for years, has played at a very high level. Louisville with Rick Pitino, he's a great drawing card — he's a great coach.

I think when you look at our side of Conference USA, I think that was the big gripe with the coaches on the other side. It's not mean negatively, but the coaches on the other side don't see Louisville every year. They don't see Cincinnati every year. They don't see a Marquette every year. So, I think from a fans' standpoint, you can understand where they're coming from.

I think for us at East Carolina, with the two divisions, I think our side is pretty tough. Now, I'm not saying that we could go on the other side and just win basketball games. That's not what I'm saying. But now when you go to one conference, I think maybe for East Carolina, you might not be bringing in the marquee programs and coaches so to say, but now I think it gives everybody a fair chance.